Electric school buses the next DUD………lmao

[SteinwayTransitCorp]

Biden Spent $1 Billion To Get Schools Electric Buses. This Michigan District Says Theirs Hardly Work.​

Collin Anderson

A Proterra electric bus in service in Philadelphia in 2019 / YouTube Screenshot
Michigan's fourth-largest school district is having "significant" performance issues with its expensive electric buses, issues that come after the Biden administration spent $1 billion to "transform America's school bus fleet" with electric models.

During an April 19 presentation to the Ann Arbor Public Schools Board of Education, the district's environmental sustainability director, Emile Lauzzana, highlighted a number of issues with the district's electric bus fleet. Those buses, Lauzzana said, have "a lot of downtime and performance issues" and aren't "fully on the road," despite the fact that they are "approximately five times more expensive than regular buses." The infrastructure upgrades required to use the buses, meanwhile, were "originally estimated to be only about $50,000" but "ended up being more like $200,000," according to Lauzzana. "I have a number of colleagues in different states who are facing similar challenges," the district official lamented. "For the school bus market, it's been challenging for us."

Just months before Lauzzana's admission, President Joe Biden's Environmental Protection Agency announced it awarded nearly $1 billion in taxpayer funds to "transform America's school bus fleet" with "over 2,400 clean school buses that will accelerate the transition to zero emission vehicles." But problems with electric buses occurred long before the agency's announcement.

Electric bus company Proterra, which the Biden administration has lauded as "pretty amazing," saw Philadelphia remove 25 of its buses from the roads in 2020 due to structural problems. Those buses cost the city $24 million. Another Southern California city waited months in 2021 to repair nearly a dozen buses from its electric fleet, more than a third of which were out of service at the time. Ann Arbor Public Schools' electric buses also use Proterra batteries and drivetrain technology.

Still, those issues did not stop Biden from setting aside $9 billion for electric school buses and local transit vehicles in the Democrat's November 2021 infrastructure bill. Biden is also not the only prominent Democrat who is spending big on "clean" buses. Michigan Democratic governor Gretchen Whitmer plans to create a $150 million electric school bus program through her 2024 state budget. Even Ann Arbor Public Schools is refusing to step away from electric buses—Lauzzana during his April presentation said the district is committed to purchasing "additional electric buses," despite its ongoing challenges. For conservative group Michigan Freedom Fund, that commitment is misguided.

"Michigan Democrats have put the (electric) cart before the horse. The technology and infrastructure for electric buses do not exist at this moment … yet Democrats and school districts insist on purchasing electric buses," the group's communications director, Mary Drabik, told the Washington Free Beacon. "This backward approach to policy only creates more costly problems for residents. As long as Democrats continue to spend the tax dollars of hard-working Michiganders, it will be the residents that truly suffer, not the environment."

Ann Arbor Public Schools, the Biden administration, and Whitmer did not return requests for comment. While the school district did not purchase its electric buses with federal money from the Biden administration—its buses are the product of a state grant funded by Michigan's portion of a Volkswagen environmental settlement—Lauzzana's presentation shows that the district hopes to take advantage of additional "incentive programs" in the future.

The Biden administration has faced intense criticism from congressional Republicans over its ties to electric bus maker Proterra. Administration officials repeatedly showcased the company while Biden's energy secretary, Jennifer Granholm, held up to $5 million in Proterra stock. Granholm eventually sold her 240,000 Proterra shares in May 2021, with the former Michigan governor earning a cool $1.6 million. Just months after Granholm's stock sale, Proterra officials discussed their plans to capitalize on government electric bus spending. "The tailwinds of the North American electric transit bus market have never been stronger," the company said in an August 2021 report. "With zero emission transit bus funding increasing by over 300 percent over 2021 funding levels, we expect the [infrastructure bill], if passed by Congress and signed into law, to help drive significant acceleration in the electrification of more than 65,000 buses in the North American transit bus fleet."

 

[idssteve]

Biden Spent $1 Billion To Get Schools Electric Buses. This Michigan District Says Theirs Hardly Work.​

Collin Anderson

A Proterra electric bus in service in Philadelphia in 2019 / YouTube Screenshot
Michigan's fourth-largest school district is having "significant" performance issues with its expensive electric buses, issues that come after the Biden administration spent $1 billion to "transform America's school bus fleet" with electric models.

During an April 19 presentation to the Ann Arbor Public Schools Board of Education, the district's environmental sustainability director, Emile Lauzzana, highlighted a number of issues with the district's electric bus fleet. Those buses, Lauzzana said, have "a lot of downtime and performance issues" and aren't "fully on the road," despite the fact that they are "approximately five times more expensive than regular buses." The infrastructure upgrades required to use the buses, meanwhile, were "originally estimated to be only about $50,000" but "ended up being more like $200,000," according to Lauzzana. "I have a number of colleagues in different states who are facing similar challenges," the district official lamented. "For the school bus market, it's been challenging for us."

Just months before Lauzzana's admission, President Joe Biden's Environmental Protection Agency announced it awarded nearly $1 billion in taxpayer funds to "transform America's school bus fleet" with "over 2,400 clean school buses that will accelerate the transition to zero emission vehicles." But problems with electric buses occurred long before the agency's announcement.

Electric bus company Proterra, which the Biden administration has lauded as "pretty amazing," saw Philadelphia remove 25 of its buses from the roads in 2020 due to structural problems. Those buses cost the city $24 million. Another Southern California city waited months in 2021 to repair nearly a dozen buses from its electric fleet, more than a third of which were out of service at the time. Ann Arbor Public Schools' electric buses also use Proterra batteries and drivetrain technology.

Still, those issues did not stop Biden from setting aside $9 billion for electric school buses and local transit vehicles in the Democrat's November 2021 infrastructure bill. Biden is also not the only prominent Democrat who is spending big on "clean" buses. Michigan Democratic governor Gretchen Whitmer plans to create a $150 million electric school bus program through her 2024 state budget. Even Ann Arbor Public Schools is refusing to step away from electric buses—Lauzzana during his April presentation said the district is committed to purchasing "additional electric buses," despite its ongoing challenges. For conservative group Michigan Freedom Fund, that commitment is misguided.

"Michigan Democrats have put the (electric) cart before the horse. The technology and infrastructure for electric buses do not exist at this moment … yet Democrats and school districts insist on purchasing electric buses," the group's communications director, Mary Drabik, told the Washington Free Beacon. "This backward approach to policy only creates more costly problems for residents. As long as Democrats continue to spend the tax dollars of hard-working Michiganders, it will be the residents that truly suffer, not the environment."

Ann Arbor Public Schools, the Biden administration, and Whitmer did not return requests for comment. While the school district did not purchase its electric buses with federal money from the Biden administration—its buses are the product of a state grant funded by Michigan's portion of a Volkswagen environmental settlement—Lauzzana's presentation shows that the district hopes to take advantage of additional "incentive programs" in the future.

The Biden administration has faced intense criticism from congressional Republicans over its ties to electric bus maker Proterra. Administration officials repeatedly showcased the company while Biden's energy secretary, Jennifer Granholm, held up to $5 million in Proterra stock. Granholm eventually sold her 240,000 Proterra shares in May 2021, with the former Michigan governor earning a cool $1.6 million. Just months after Granholm's stock sale, Proterra officials discussed their plans to capitalize on government electric bus spending. "The tailwinds of the North American electric transit bus market have never been stronger," the company said in an August 2021 report. "With zero emission transit bus funding increasing by over 300 percent over 2021 funding levels, we expect the [infrastructure bill], if passed by Congress and signed into law, to help drive significant acceleration in the electrification of more than 65,000 buses in the North American transit bus fleet."

Remember the Grumman bus fiasco? Using aluminum fuel tank for drive train support was bad enough. Fortunately #2 fuel's pretty safe stuff. BUT the phreeking maniacs routed electrical conduit thru wheel well! And wheel travel permitted tire mashing the phreeking electrical conduit! Inevitable electrically ignited fuel leaking thru fuel tank cracks. Ug.

Some ppl have NO business designing roller skates! Grumman sorta sorted things out. Kinda. Lol

Like more details on specific problems with these busses. I, personally, might prove resistant to putting my kids or grandkids on these things without review of fire mitigation strategies. Including escape?


Also, what's battery storage capacity of these? My home town runs school busses thru an assigned route for elementary students. Another round for middle school. A third round for high school. Either battery capacity would need to be sufficient to travel three rounds? OR level three charging between rounds?.


And THEN repeat three rounds afternoon. And THEN recharge overnight in sub freezing temps? AND also support cabin heat for kids on cold days?


Quite a challenge. Imo.

Batteries will need to be HUGE imo. Ooooor swappable?
Level three charging a fleet of these might demand a sizable substation itself?

 

[spARTacus]

There's electric transit buses already. No idea how often they need to be charged and their uptime (vs downtime for charging) on various routes for different municipalities, but there's bound to be a fair bit of statistics about them already.

 

[idssteve]

Greenhouse mechanism restricts infrared radiation into black space vacuum. Nearly every drop of energy fed electric motors rejects as convection or conduction heat. How much of that radiates as infrared into black space vacuum? ??

 

[SteinwayTransitCorp]

Greenhouse mechanism restricts infrared radiation into black space vacuum. Nearly every drop of energy fed electric motors rejects as convection or conduction heat. How much of that radiates as infrared into black space vacuum? ??

Last time I was in New York City, the Port Authority of New York, and New Jersey are using electric buses around the airports. I was speaking to the driver in depth it was working. The buses get about 3 1/2 hours use before they need to go back to the bond to be charged. This is made worse when the AC unit must be run constantly. In my opinion this is a total fiasco a transit bus should be on Minimum of eight hours, and then someplace is up to 10. As for the Grumman bus fiasco, that was the fault of the New York City transit authority. Our company had the same buses. We sent ours back to Gramond and had them repaired, the city never made the repairs and continue to operate them until the motor fell out on Queens Boulevard. Then they sued lost and caught and sold $195,000 buses for 10 grand. We bought 75 of them at that price. And ran them over 25 years of service.

 

[idssteve]

Last time I was in New York City, the Port Authority of New York, and New Jersey are using electric buses around the airports. I was speaking to the driver in depth it was working. The buses get about 3 1/2 hours use before they need to go back to the bond to be charged. This is made worse when the AC unit must be run constantly. In my opinion this is a total fiasco a transit bus should be on Minimum of eight hours, and then someplace is up to 10. As for the Grumman bus fiasco, that was the fault of the New York City transit authority. Our company had the same buses. We sent ours back to Gramond and had them repaired, the city never made the repairs and continue to operate them until the motor fell out on Queens Boulevard. Then they sued lost and caught and sold $195,000 buses for 10 grand. We bought 75 of them at that price. And ran them over 25 years of service.

Yeah, Grumman sorta got it working. Still... Hanging drive train from aluminum fuel tank should never have made it to paper. Let alone production. Imo.

Dont get me started on conduit routing and wheel travel. Clearly a failure to communicate between suspension and electric teams. Lol.

 

[idssteve]

Last time I was in New York City, the Port Authority of New York, and New Jersey are using electric buses around the airports. I was speaking to the driver in depth it was working. The buses get about 3 1/2 hours use before they need to go back to the bond to be charged. This is made worse when the AC unit must be run constantly. In my opinion this is a total fiasco a transit bus should be on Minimum of eight hours, and then someplace is up to 10. As for the Grumman bus fiasco, that was the fault of the New York City transit authority. Our company had the same buses. We sent ours back to Gramond and had them repaired, the city never made the repairs and continue to operate them until the motor fell out on Queens Boulevard. Then they sued lost and caught and sold $195,000 buses for 10 grand. We bought 75 of them at that price. And ran them over 25 years of service.

3.5 hrs might prove workable IF battery can be swapped in 3.5 minutes over lunch break? That'd permit 3.5 hrs to charge. Much easier on infrastructure than trying to stuff 3.5hrs of energy into 35 minutes of charging time? Lol