Madness? Genius?

[idssteve]

A startup says it’s begun releasing particles in the atmosphere, in an effort to tweak the climate

www.technologyreview.com

I once authored a "SciFi series" in High School weekly. Yes, printed on paper days. Lol. Generally detailing final days of the Great Planet Atlantis. Once positioned between Mars and Jupiter. Space now occupied as the Main Asteroid Belt. Lol.. Ultimately pulverized via ballistic impact. Ug

All Atlantians were compelled to vote each morning for their preferred weather for that day... Naturally the "Sunny Day Party" prevailed. Despite pleading for SOME rain by farmers.. Lol.

Damned farmers not only got blamed for inevitable famine, but also suffered public excoriation for wanting dreary, rainy, days! The nerve! The audacity!! LMAO. Lol

The brief series concluded after global gridlock failed to choose between diverting a ballistic body or moving the planet out of that body's path. A tiny few "selfish individualists" migrated to near by Mars. Fewer yet migrated to Earth. Mars then suffered secondary impacts... Still awaiting reports from the Ganymede Contingent. Lol.

my point? If we're going to actively engineer our environment, who decides what? ??

 

[Chuck Finley69]

A startup says it’s begun releasing particles in the atmosphere, in an effort to tweak the climate

www.technologyreview.com

I once authored a "SciFi series" in High School weekly. Yes, printed on paper days. Lol. Generally detailing final days of the Great Planet Atlantis. Once positioned between Mars and Jupiter. Space now occupied as the Main Asteroid Belt. Lol.. Ultimately pulverized via ballistic impact. Ug

All Atlantians were compelled to vote each morning for their preferred weather for that day... Naturally the "Sunny Day Party" prevailed. Despite pleading for SOME rain by farmers.. Lol.

Damned farmers not only got blamed for inevitable famine, but also suffered public excoriation for wanting dreary, rainy, days! The nerve! The audacity!! LMAO. Lol

The brief series concluded after global gridlock failed to choose between diverting a ballistic body or moving the planet out of that body's path. A tiny few "selfish individualists" migrated to near by Mars. Fewer yet migrated to Earth. Mars then suffered secondary impacts... Still awaiting reports from the Ganymede Contingent. Lol.

my point? If we're going to actively engineer our environment, who decides what? ??

Amen

 

[SteinwayTransitCorp]

A startup says it’s begun releasing particles in the atmosphere, in an effort to tweak the climate

www.technologyreview.com

I once authored a "SciFi series" in High School weekly. Yes, printed on paper days. Lol. Generally detailing final days of the Great Planet Atlantis. Once positioned between Mars and Jupiter. Space now occupied as the Main Asteroid Belt. Lol.. Ultimately pulverized via ballistic impact. Ug

All Atlantians were compelled to vote each morning for their preferred weather for that day... Naturally the "Sunny Day Party" prevailed. Despite pleading for SOME rain by farmers.. Lol.

Damned farmers not only got blamed for inevitable famine, but also suffered public excoriation for wanting dreary, rainy, days! The nerve! The audacity!! LMAO. Lol

The brief series concluded after global gridlock failed to choose between diverting a ballistic body or moving the planet out of that body's path. A tiny few "selfish individualists" migrated to near by Mars. Fewer yet migrated to Earth. Mars then suffered secondary impacts... Still awaiting reports from the Ganymede Contingent. Lol.

my point? If we're going to actively engineer our environment, who decides what? ??

Spot on my friend spot on

 

[Ph1llip]

A startup says it’s begun releasing particles in the atmosphere, in an effort to tweak the climate

www.technologyreview.com

my point? If we're going to actively engineer our environment, who decides what? ??

We don't need to. God's always in control. He created it, he'll renew it. It's hubris for man to think he can "save" the planet. It was always God's and God's alone.

Revelations 21 (New American Standard Translation)

The New Heaven and Earth​

21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among the people, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His [a]people, and God Himself will be among them[b], 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

 

[Paul Reichert]

I'd miss there being seas around. Maybe very large lakes would be permitted?

 

[SteinwayTransitCorp]

We don't need to. God's always in control. He created it, he'll renew it. It's hubris for man to think he can "save" the planet. It was always God's and God's alone.

Revelations 21 (New American Standard Translation)

The New Heaven and Earth​

21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among the people, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His [a]people, and God Himself will be among them[b], 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

We only got global warming or climate change after they whacked God, because if you believe in one, you can’t believe that man can actually control the universe

 

[idssteve]

Infinite Creation proves pretty safe from pathetic human mischief. Not so safe within micro scale? I'm certainly capable to trash out my infinitesimal portion of Creation within my own body, for example. Within my own room? Home? Property? Community?? ... Globe? ??

Does our Creator intervene while we trash the Beautiful Playroom He's Created for us? Or maybe, like many good Fathers, He let's us learn our lessons? ??

I recall LA, early 60s. Helping my father wash OIL like substance precipitate from the windshield. WE were breathing that abomination! PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) ultimately helped alleviate THAT human generated mess. PCV already in pretty common production before California mandates, btw.

Is CO2 trashing our "Playroom"? idk. Data, as published, demands at least two leaps of "faith" to solidly connect those dots. Imo. For this engineer, at least. Thing is, I don't have to KNOW. Reasonable doubt is permitted.

If I suspect tire troubles, I don't need to KNOW, beyond reasonable doubt, that there IS an identifiable problem before stopping to check. Simple suspicion that there MIGHT be a problem is enough to prompt caution. For ME.

Whether and how that caution gets implemented WILL get decided. Not to decide is certainly one choice. Committing to a suicide pact is another. Hopefully productive dialogue can compromise? ??

 

[SteinwayTransitCorp]

Infinite Creation proves pretty safe from pathetic human mischief. Not so safe within micro scale? I'm certainly capable to trash out my infinitesimal portion of Creation within my own body, for example. Within my own room? Home? Property? Community?? ... Globe? ??

Does our Creator intervene while we trash the Beautiful Playroom He's Created for us? Or maybe, like many good Fathers, He let's us learn our lessons? ??

I recall LA, early 60s. Helping my father wash OIL like substance precipitate from the windshield. WE were breathing that abomination! PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) ultimately helped alleviate THAT human generated mess. PCV already in pretty common production before California mandates, btw.

Is CO2 trashing our "Playroom"? idk. Data, as published, demands at least two leaps of "faith" to solidly connect those dots. Imao. For this engineer, at least. Thing is, I don't have to KNOW. Reasonable doubt is permitted.

If I suspect tire troubles, I don't need to KNOW, beyond reasonable doubt, that there IS an identifiable problem before stopping to check. Simple suspicion that there MIGHT be a problem is enough to prompt caution. For ME.

Whether and how that caution gets implemented WILL get decided. Not to decide is certainly one choice. Committing to a suicide pact is another. Hopefully productive dialogue can compromise? ??

The ultimate problem I have is man now believes he can alter not only the weather, but the weather 30 to 40 years in advance. If we follow the normal course which is what went on with ice engines, they would come up with a way to have them burn cleaner. Just like they did in the 70s with smog. We got the catalytic converter. But we now have a group of people that Firmly believe they not only know better, but there is no room for open discussion. I am all for keeping the planet clean. Just don’t try to tell me it’s raining out while you pee on my head.

 

[idssteve]

The ultimate problem I have is man now believes he can alter not only the weather, but the weather 30 to 40 years in advance. If we follow the normal course which is what went on with ice engines, they would come up with a way to have them burn cleaner. Just like they did in the 70s with smog. We got the catalytic converter. But we now have a group of people that Firmly believe they not only know better, but there is no room for open discussion. I am all for keeping the planet clean. Just don’t try to tell me it’s raining out while you pee on my head.

Lol... I grew up around electric cattle barriers. We are careful about where to pee. Lol. I also grew up as a naturalist and a conservationist. "Environmentalists", in MY day, were engineers charged with engineering living environments inside space craft. Lol. Sharp folks but... failed horribly with Apollo one. Ug

I don't begrudge their challenge. Are there enough synaptic "bits" within our pathetic mortal cranium to process the BIG picture? Lol. Do these "engineers" launching sulfur particulates into our shared atmosphere command a BIG picture? ??

Last I spoke breifely with Ed Abbey, (gas station in NM. Go figure.) he lamented what he considered counter productive counter culture social engineering that some environmentalists were pursuing... Late 80s. He'd just been shouted down (in Flagstaff?) for suggesting inclusive dialog. If I understood right? He seemed concerned about a "Marxist highjack" of a cause very dear to him. A lot to gather from a few dozen words in passing so...?? Fwiw.

My observations and experience pretty well confirm that if a proposed "solution" fails to cripple and maime Capitalism, it's treated as satanically derived. Imo. ? A perspective worthy of discussion at least. If discussion can be tolerated? Lol

If, BIG if, that discussion concludes that The Planet et al (how ever that's defined) is truly better off with "Amerika" in ashes, that obliterates a primary impediment to CCP's global dominance. Once unchallenged, what has CCP demonstrated they'll do with their dominance of Mom Earth? ??

Again. Who decides what? ?? First order of business for every decision is to decide to decide. Deciding NOT to decide IS a decision. Legitimately derived if it's legitimately debated. Imo. Fwiw.

 

[SteinwayTransitCorp]

Lol... I grew up around electric cattle barriers. We are careful about where to pee. Lol. I also grew up as a naturalist and a conservationist. "Environmentalists", in MY day, were engineers charged with engineering living environments inside space craft. Lol. Sharp folks but... failed horribly with Apollo one. Ug

I don't begrudge their challenge. Are there enough synaptic "bits" within our pathetic mortal cranium to process the BIG picture? Lol. Do these "engineers" launching sulfur particulates into our shared atmosphere command a BIG picture? ??

Last I spoke breifely with Ed Abbey, (gas station in NM. Go figure.) he lamented what he considered counter productive counter culture social engineering that some environmentalists were pursuing... Late 80s. He'd just been shouted down (in Flagstaff?) for suggesting inclusive dialog. If I understood right? He seemed concerned about a "Marxist highjack" of a cause very dear to him. A lot to gather from a few dozen words in passing so...?? Fwiw.

My observations and experience pretty well confirm that if a proposed "solution" fails to cripple and maime Capitalism, it's treated as satanically derived. Imo. ? A perspective worthy of discussion at least. If discussion can be tolerated? Lol

If, BIG if, that discussion concludes that The Planet et al (how ever that's defined) is truly better off with "Amerika" in ashes, that obliterates a primary impediment to CCP's global dominance. Once unchallenged, what has CCP demonstrated they'll do with their dominance of Mom Earth? ??

Again. Who decides what? ?? First order of business for every decision is to decide to decide. Deciding NOT to decide IS a decision. Legitimately derived if it's legitimately debated. Imo. Fwiw.

Yup, I spent the better part of my life dealing with weather. I find it almost comical. When scientists will tell me we can predict this, and we can predict that, but only if we alter the numbers. I have always felt we should treat the Earth with respect, I just cannot stand the new crop of experts, who know it all. In the Navy, we would say boy you tell it the way it really isn’t.

 

[idssteve]

Yup, I spent the better part of my life dealing with weather. I find it almost comical. When scientists will tell me we can predict this, and we can predict that, but only if we alter the numbers. I have always felt we should treat the Earth with respect, I just cannot stand the new crop of experts, who know it all. In the Navy, we would say boy you tell it the way it really isn’t.

Lol... Bull Halsey cudda used and then used some better weather info a couple infamous times. Meteorology was certainly in its infancy then. As was carrier strategy.

Back in my NASA days we defined an "expert" as someone from more than 50 miles away. Lol. "know it all know nothings" aside, MY life long concern has preoccupied O2 consumption. Our fossil fired machines consume a LOT of O2. Most of which must get replenished by plants via photosynthesis. A process pretty clearly lagging to keep up. Per global O2 ppm.

Yet, I don't see where plant life's response to our CO2-O2 exchange has proven adequately considered. What accommodations have plant life employed in response to elevated CO2? More plant growth? What time scale will they need to reverse those accommodations? Is it possible that halting CO2 discharge TOO abruptly might exceed plant life capacity to adapt? That overkill on our part might result in mass plant kill? CO2 is FOOD to plants...?? Has its role there been adequately considered? Idk.

 

[Paul Reichert]

IF we ever got it together, the result would be a halt to the increase of CO2 in the atmosphere. An actual loss of CO2, um what is the natural rate of exhaustion? I'd have to ask a scientist I suppose. But why trust a scientist?

What I vaguely recall is the problem is for example tree growth is harmed by the changing climate and that's a far larger factor than them growing more quickly with of all that tasty CO2 they can turn into sugar.

But then, I like forests so may be playing favourites.

 

[idssteve]

IF we ever got it together, the result would be a halt to the increase of CO2 in the atmosphere. An actual loss of CO2, um what is the natural rate of exhaustion? I'd have to ask a scientist I suppose. But why trust a scientist?

What I vaguely recall is the problem is for example tree growth is harmed by the changing climate and that's a far larger factor than them growing more quickly with of all that tasty CO2 they can turn into sugar.

But then, I like forests so may be playing favourites.

2/3 of O2-CO2 exchange happens at sea. Our Oceans ARE suffering. The causes must be honestly, openly, debated. Likewise solutions.

 

[Paul Reichert]

2/3 of O2-CO2 exchange happens at sea. Our Oceans ARE suffering. The causes must be honestly, openly, debated. Likewise solutions.

Oh yes, forgot that. Acidification is an looming problem apparently. Another one.

 

[Ph1llip]

Does our Creator intervene while we trash the Beautiful Playroom He's Created for us? Or maybe, like many good Fathers, He let's us learn our lessons? ??

Is CO2 trashing our "Playroom"? idk.

I didn't intend to sound preachy, apologies if it came across that way.

All I meant with that quote was to state my belief that while we are certainly able to damage the earth in some way or even a long way, God won't let it get to an extinction level event. I believe His plans for it trump anything we could ever do.

We should certainly be good custodians of the Earth as much as we can but like STCo, I believe it's gone way overboard. It's certainly crossed the line into Gaia worship, which is paganism at its worst. The Earth isn't a deity, but you wouldn't know from all the hysteria currently erupting in society about it.

 

[Paul Reichert]

For some of us it's the only deity available.

 

[Ph1llip]

For some of us it's the only deity available.

Don't wave the red flag Paul LOL

 

[idssteve]

Oh yes, forgot that. Acidification is an looming problem apparently. Another one.

Oceans sink MUCH CO2 at cold depths. Warmer oceans less. Put very simply, think of popping a cap from well chilled beer bottle. Then from one out of a hot car. That's CO2 you're releasing. Lol

Relevant question, what mechanism is "boiling" CO2 from our Oceans? I'm personally willing to accept human activity as root cause here. At least contributing.

Solution? Level modern civilization back to prehuman? What if we then find that some external influence was to blame? Sure would like a less convoluted explanation for why Pluto has melted...? Despite being further from Sol than 30years ago? What if we might've leveraged our technology as a life boat to survive what ever is going on? What if our life boat was NOT causing the flood? What if drilling holes in our life boat is not letting the water OUT? Lol.

Questions that really should be honestly discussed before committing mass suicide? Or at least before handing global dominion to CCP?

 

[idssteve]

I didn't intend to sound preachy, apologies if it came across that way.

All I meant with that quote was to state my belief that while we are certainly able to damage the earth in some way or even a long way, God won't let it get to an extinction level event. I believe His plans for it trump anything we could ever do.

We should certainly be good custodians of the Earth as much as we can but like STCo, I believe it's gone way overboard. It's certainly crossed the line into Gaia worship, which is paganism at its worst. The Earth isn't a deity, but you wouldn't know from all the hysteria currently erupting in society about it.

Yep. Mom Earth is a fellow creation we share our life with. She IS mortal! As is Sol! There's only so much fuel to drive our local thermal nuclear energy source. Yes, probably several billion years worth but how long will it take us to solve that issue? Our Savior made it clear that we mortals will not KNOW the time. Nor date.

Well before Sol runs out of gas, we'll inevitably face an impact event. Imho. Worth noting that every single atom our planet is made of got here by collision. Earth's gravity inevitably invites more.. What portion of our technology might mitigate that threat? Lol.

 

[SteinwayTransitCorp]

Yep. Mom Earth is a fellow creation we share our life with. She IS mortal! As is Sol! There's only so much fuel to drive our local thermal nuclear energy source. Yes, probably several billion years worth but how long will it take us to solve that issue? Our Savior made it clear that we mortals will not KNOW the time. Nor date.

Well before Sol runs out of gas, we'll inevitably face an impact event. Imho. Worth noting that every single atom our planet is made of got here by collision. Earth's gravity inevitably invites more.. What portion of our technology might mitigate that threat? Lol.

Just beam out…………