Slow EV Supply Chain

[Justgeeee]

We have the Ford Mustang Mach-E and we love it. We got it in April of this year and its has been wonderful. The speed and power of the vehicle is not something I should be driving. I find myself going 90+ mph and it just feels like your gliding. Took it for a few road trips and the trip planner in the Ford App makes it easy to find charging stations. We don't have a charger at home because there are so many near us at places we usually go shopping or have appointments so its easier to charge out instead of paying $3K to have a charger installed at home. I hear Chevy is offering a credit though to have the charger installed at home for you. There are new tax credits in the US which should help with adoption but the prices are still really high and not that affordable.

Sadly, since its a newer model EV parts are hard to come by. A piece of cement or brick hit the front messed up the radiator and its been in the shop waiting for parts for 2+ months now. Hoping within the next 5 years there will be way more chargers, more robust EV supply chain, and more affordable prices.

 

[howarmat]

They are very nice. I love my 05 but wouldnt mind the Mach-E for fun as well

 

[Yamahammer]

They are very nice. I love my 05 but wouldnt mind the Mach-E for fun as well

Wow, that's quite the turnaround, a few weeks back you were vociferously against anything that wasn't fed by gasoline. What changed your mind?

 

[howarmat]

Wow, that's quite the turnaround, a few weeks back you were vociferously against anything that wasn't fed by gasoline. What changed your mind?

Nothing as I stated many times I am not a hater at all. My stance is that they are not ready for primetime and the elimination ICE anytime soon. You once again just choose to ignore statements that refute you sole purpose to antagonize people and be a ****. In fact here is my direct quote in the other thread about the Mustang Mach-E

And I certainly am not a hater as I have thought about getting one plenty of times. Even the EV Mustang intrigued me as I have owned a mustang over half my life almost. I just refute the fact that they are the way forward and will replace all ICE in the next 10 years.

 

[Yamahammer]

Nothing as I stated many times I am not a hater at all. My stance is that they are not ready for primetime and the elimination ICE anytime soon. You once again just choose to ignore statements that refute you soul purpose to antagonize people and be a ****. In fact here is my direct quote in the other thread about the Mustang Mach-E

Control yourself. I did not call you any names.

So you want one as a toy. Got it.

 

[SteinwayTransitCorp]

The parts issue is with everything, the real issue is in cold weather.................please don't use the heat.....LOL How can a company sell any product and then tell you that using the cooling or heat will have a dramatic effect on the vehicle? Not ready yet and going to be lots of very unhappy owners in the North.

 

[Justgeeee]

The parts issue is with everything, the real issue is in cold weather.................please don't use the heat.....LOL How can a company sell any product and then tell you that using the cooling or heat will have a dramatic effect on the vehicle? Not ready yet and going to be lots of very unhappy owners in the North.

I agree with the weather nonsense as well. The Ford app says to reset trip log, setup remote start to warm the cabin, keep it in a garage, keep it plugged in... seems a bit much but like with most new things theres going to be some effort I feel.

 

[Justgeeee]

They are very nice. I love my 05 but wouldnt mind the Mach-E for fun as well

We still have a Ford Taurus and Edge and will probably keep those given the future transition away from ICE vehicles. My local dealer had a Mustang Cobra and that bad boy was loud. The Mach-E make no noise

 

[Yamahammer]

Well us Kanuckleheads might be built from stronger stuff?

So here's how Canadians will handle the cold weather. First thing to bring up is the fact that the average North American (that includes Canadians..) driver drives about 40 miles per day. Secondly, Canadians who live in cold climates (-20f is commonplace) are already used to plugging in their ICE cars overnight as well as when at work so plugging in an EV involves no extra effort.

So doing 40 miles per day on average there is actually no range anxiety to begin with for the everyday use of an EV and coupled with being plugged in overnight which not only is charging the battery but also allows for the cabin to be preheated and the windows defrosted using house current before entering the car. Thus minimizing the loss of range due to heating up the interior before driving.

There are other issues that also come into play such as in the older Tesla models which use electric resistance heating versus newer models which utilize heat pumps and as such use considerably less battery.

Bring on winter! Actually it's already here, it was 32 below fahr last night.

Edit. Forgot to mention that I won't have to make the extra effort to go the gas station...

Attached picture is a picture of parking lots in Winnipeg and plug-ins available which is pretty much standard.

 

[spARTacus]

I'll suggest that use of ICE block heaters during winter (whenever average temperatures remain below 0C) is not standard or common across Canada, and even for areas that frequently experience cold spells below minus 25C. Use of ICE block heaters (and availability of extensive block heater plug-in infrastructure at places of work, etc) may be more prominent in some areas like Winnipeg, where it may remain quite cold for extended periods of time during winter. However, I don't think it is valid to expect that current ICE block heater practices/infrastructure in Canada are sufficient to immediately or directly transfer to address what may be needed if current large scale adoption of EVs needs to include all of those EVs always being plugged in when it is even mildly cold out. I'd agree there is a similarity concept that could be leveraged and I'd also agree that current ICE owners who extensively use their ICE block heaters are well positioned to not be significantly impacted by having to always plug in EVs.

 

[SteinwayTransitCorp]

Well us Kanuckleheads might be built from stronger stuff?

So here's how Canadians will handle the cold weather. First thing to bring up is the fact that the average North American (that includes Canadians..) driver drives about 40 miles per day. Secondly, Canadians who live in cold climates (-20f is commonplace) are already used to plugging in their ICE cars overnight as well as when at work so plugging in an EV involves no extra effort.

So doing 40 miles per day on average there is actually no range anxiety to begin with for the everyday use of an EV and coupled with being plugged in overnight which not only is charging the battery but also allows for the cabin to be preheated and the windows defrosted using house current before entering the car. Thus minimizing the loss of range due to heating up the interior before driving.

There are other issues that also come into play such as in the older Tesla models which use electric resistance heating versus newer models which utilize heat pumps and as such use considerably less battery.

Bring on winter! Actually it's already here, it was 32 below fahr last night.

Edit. Forgot to mention that I won't have to make the extra effort to go the gas station...

Attached picture is a picture of parking lots in Winnipeg and plug-ins available which is pretty much standard.

As always you missed the point, most people cannot plug in and most places people cannot and do not plug in. I know many Canadians who live in cold climates and do not plug in unless they own a diesel engiines, I have a home in Montana where it get very cold and we leave vehicles out all the time. You can’t change the fact that these things are not ready for prime time. BTW the mileage per year driven is far from accurate because most people have a second family car/truck and that goes long haul. You see it in FLA all the time, Tesla for around town, escalade when the family goes out.

 

[SteinwayTransitCorp]

Wow, that's quite the turnaround, a few weeks back you were vociferously against anything that wasn't fed by gasoline. What changed your mind?

Not a turn around none of us hate anything, you have issues with people who do not think as you do.

 

[Yamahammer]

I'll suggest that use of ICE block heaters during winter (whenever average temperatures remain below 0C) is not standard or common across Canada, and even for areas that frequently experience cold spells below minus 25C. Use of ICE block heaters (and availability of extensive block heater plug-in infrastructure at places of work, etc) may be more prominent in some areas like Winnipeg, where it may remain quite cold for extended periods of time during winter. However, I don't think it is valid to expect that current ICE block heater practices/infrastructure in Canada are sufficient to immediately or directly transfer to address what may be needed if current large scale adoption of EVs needs to include all of those EVs always being plugged in when it is even mildly cold out. I'd agree there is a similarity concept that could be leveraged and I'd also agree that current ICE owners who extensively use their ICE block heaters are well positioned to not be significantly impacted by having to always plug in EVs.

Thanks for pointing that out. Yes I do live in a climate extreme as compared to let's say Toronto. Generally the need to plug in a block heater in Toronto is very rare and why is that? Temperature. So injecting that into owning an EV in Toronto indicates there is a lot less drop in the capacity or range due to the cold.

 

[spARTacus]

Thanks for pointing that out. Yes I do live in a climate extreme as compared to let's say Toronto. Generally the need to plug in a block heater in Toronto is very rare and why is that? Temperature. So injecting that into owning an EV in Toronto indicates there is a lot less drop in the capacity or range due to the cold.

Probably indeed (less capacity/range drop when operating an EV in Toronto during winter than in comparison to Winnipeg).

However, Toronto (and maybe let's say also Montreal) might be perfect places in Canada to consider as examples for the discussion about winter temperatures, EV operations and ICE block heaters. That is, cold enough to require EVs to be extensively plugged in but not so cold to have previously resulted in extensive ICE block heater use, practises and infrastructure.

 

[Yamahammer]

Probably indeed (less capacity/range drop when operating an EV in Toronto during winter than in comparison to Winnipeg).

However, Toronto (and maybe let's say also Montreal) might be perfect places in Canada to consider as examples for the discussion about winter temperatures, EV operations and ICE block heaters. That is, cold enough to require EVs to be extensively plugged in but not so cold to have previously resulted in extensive ICE block heater use, practises and infrastructure.

Go ahead, what do you drive and give us some practical details!

 

[spARTacus]

I live in the Eastern-Ontario/Ottawa area. Fair bit colder than Toronto area. Each winter, frequent cold spells of below minus 20C/25C and also cold spells of below minus 30C. Pre-COVID, my daily commute was slightly more than 120km a day five days a week. I have a standard exterior outlet (all houses do) but there is no ICE block heater outlets/infrastructure at work (very rare at any work locations in my area). We have had two ICE vehicles in the family for about the last 20 years. A mid/smaller one for my general "commutes" and use and another much large "family" one. The larger one is frequently for whole family use and long trips, plus also for towing. We could perhaps figure out how to get by with an EV for the smaller one. However, even it is periodically used for long trips into South Western Ontario in the middle of the winter through snow storms. Charging anxiety concerns and flexibility needs for even just it probably wouldn't work for us as an EV. Not yet worth it for us to switch. There is zero ability for an EV to work for our needs for the larger one. If we are lucky, when the kids all move out and when we eventually slow down and retire quite a few years from now, then the EV situation will have significantly evolved more. We don't use ICE block heaters. We did for a bit a bunch of years ago but like most people in our area and in many even colder areas of Canada, we just don't (should, but don't).

EVs will probably work for some people. Not yet for us.

 

[Yamahammer]

I live in the Eastern-Ontario/Ottawa area. Fair bit colder than Toronto area. Each winter, frequent cold spells of below minus 20C/25C and also cold spells of below minus 30C. Pre-COVID, my daily commute was slightly more than 120km a day five days a week. I have a standard exterior outlet (all houses do) but there is no ICE block heater outlets/infrastructure at work (very rare at any work locations in my area). We have had two ICE vehicles in the family for about the last 20 years. A mid/smaller one for my general "commutes" and use and another much large "family" one. The larger one is frequently for whole family use and long trips, plus also for towing. We could perhaps figure out how to get by with an EV for the smaller one. However, even it is periodically used for long trips into South Western Ontario in the middle of the winter through snow storms. Charging anxiety concerns and flexibility needs for even just it probably wouldn't work for us as an EV. Not yet worth it for us to switch. There is zero ability for an EV to work for our needs for the larger one. If we are lucky, when the kids all move out and when we eventually slow down and retire quite a few years from now, then the EV situation will have significantly evolved more. We don't use ICE block heaters. We did for a bit a bunch of years ago but like most people in our area and in many even colder areas of Canada, we just don't (should, but don't).

EVs will probably work for some people. Not yet for us.

Thanks for the input. So prior to Covid you were driving twice the average of normal Canadians and that was just for work. So a typical EV in 2022 that has a range of approx 400km would therefore present no challenge getting to and from work in your case even if the battery lost 50% of it's charge at -30C. Level 1 charging would go out the window in your case of course but note your previous daily commute to work is 3 days of driving for an average Canadian,

As far as your infrequent need to go further afield I suggest that you try the route planner as was provided in the Going on a Trip thread. Chose a vehicle, input your home coordinates and destination and see what the route planner comes up with. Don't lose sight that you are able to change the desired charging level so as to simulate cold weather driving.

 

[Chuck Finley69]

Thanks for the input. So prior to Covid you were driving twice the average of normal Canadians and that was just for work. So a typical EV in 2022 that has a range of approx 400km would therefore present no challenge getting to and from work in your case even if the battery lost 50% of it's charge at -30C. Level 1 charging would go out the window in your case of course but note your previous daily commute to work is 3 days of driving for an average Canadian,

As far as your infrequent need to go further afield I suggest that you try the route planner as was provided in the Going on a Trip thread. Chose a vehicle, input your home coordinates and destination and see what the route planner comes up with. Don't lose sight that you are able to change the desired charging level so as to simulate cold weather driving.

When I travel solo, my goal is 800-1200 miles in between sleep breaks. If driving with spouse or second driver, goal is to drive through until reaching destination. An EV wouldn't get me far past Florida in most situations.

 

[Yamahammer]

When I travel solo, my goal is 800-1200 miles in between sleep breaks. If driving with spouse or second driver, goal is to drive through until reaching destination. An EV wouldn't get me far past Florida in most situations.

When I travel solo, my goal is 800-1200 miles in between sleep breaks. If driving with spouse or second driver, goal is to drive through until reaching destination. An EV wouldn't get me far past Florida in most situations.

So if that is a 2 day trip at 80 miles per hour for 30 hours you have used 12% of your yearly average of 20,000.

 

[idssteve]

A 50K mile year sounds much like "retirement" in my case. Lol. The stuff I service is too big to bring home. I MUST go to it. 100% of the 840K miles on my 99 F350 has been WORK. In service of clients and their needs. Needs that contribute toward production of various products. Some of which consumer et al might even recognize? Might even complain about availability? About pricing?? Lol. Consumers sadly, frighteningly almost, TOO ubiquitously command miniscule clue just what superhuman efforts "supply chain" links are made of. Lol.

A client, suffering $K/minute downtime really can't care less WHY it could take 30 minutes to recharge my drained to mid conversation shutdown modern phone just to call back and resume a frantic troubleshooting session. Why I carry a spare phone. Or two. Lol. (Swappable battery 9900 restored contact less than THREE minutes. Including boot. Btw. Lol)

Why I keep F350 loaded and fueled. Fueled with home brew "net zero" bio.. Including 100 gal bed tank, that rig enjoys 2300+ miles of comfortably usable range. Half if pulling a trailer. Five passengers and their gear in the crew cab prove unmeasurable range impact. Lol.

Now I'm contemplating converting that F350 to EV. VERY preliminary design strategy stage, yet. Can it hope to challenge 2300 mile range my clients and crew have grown to expect? That's the design criteria. Yet. Lol.

Replacing that heavy 7.3 diesel, transmission, transfer case and drive shafts, etc frees up a LOT of weight and space. Currently pondering an EV motor fitted to each differential punkin. And LOTS of battery.. Non-lithium the goal? Lol

To that end, absent ICE waste heat for cabin heating, crew might hafta wear their insulated Carharts? Lol. We're not heading to Grandma's after all. Suzuki never promised cabin heat when I bought my 79 GS850 motorcycle. A characteristic of the vehicle. THIS F350 is a WORK tool, after all... lol
lol